Oooohhh... New class. "Scout"

looks good.. and looks like you combined the rogue and the ranger. lol

[quote]
Fast Movement (Ex): At 2nd level, the scout's land speed is faster than the norm for his race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor or light armor, and not is not encumbered.
[/quote]

little bit of a spelling mistake.. grammar, rather. "and when is not encumbered"

[color=darkred]Fixed it. :P[/color]

I like it.

Is this for Renaissance setting? Because I see it have munitions and drive skills.

Way too many class skills for a 6+MOD class. He has more class skills than a rogue and less points to spend.

[quote="Dielzen"]Way too many class skills for a 6+MOD class. He has more class skills than a rogue and less points to spend.[/quote]

Yet wouldn't this allow for PC Scouts to customize themselves to a greater degree, rather than the more or less straightforward approach to purchasing skill ranks with the rogue in a few universally useful skills? Rogues generally tend to fall into specific categories, such as "swashbuckler" or "diplomat" or (Saber is going to kill me) "thief," without very much room to move around without becoming a rogue with skills that are spread too thin. The Scout class has one theme in mind, which is a lightfoot skilled in maneuvering and stealth; it takes the indirect approach of the rogue and the survivalist skills of the ranger and creates a reliable supporting combat class with valuable skills outside the battle, as well. Given that, the nature of how this Scout was envisioned by its creator also implies that the Scout has a chance to acquire an extremely wide variety of skills suited to her environment... rather than the chiefly socially-oriented class skills of the Rogue. :P

well, a 10 Rogue / 10 Ranger would have...

BAB +17 (15 for Scout)
Fort +10 (6 for Scout)
Ref +14 (12 for Scout)
Will +6 (6 for Scout)

Skills at 10x(8+MOD) and 10x(6+MOD) (6+MOD for Scout)
HPs at 10x8 and 10x6 (20x8 for scout)

3 favored enemies (none for Scout)

+5d6 sneak attack (same for Scout)
Woodland companion (none)
Track, woodland stride, fast tracker (same)
Wild Empathy (none)
Two free ranger feats/One rogue special ability (5 feats/3 special abilities)
20 levels of Evasion (none)
Improved Uncanny Dodge (none)
Trap Sense +3 (same)

So, to give up:
+2 BAB
+4 Fort, +2 Reflex
20 Skill Ranks
3 Favored Enemies
Woodland Companion, Wild Empathy, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge

You get:
20 HP (assuming max HPs)
3 feats
2 special abilities

A 10 Ranger/10 Rogue gives you MORE diversity in Skill ranks, MUCH better combat capabilites (favored enemy+evasion+dodge). Whereas the scout takes away all those handy defensive abilities (evasion is one of the best defenses in the game) and gives you a few more HPs and feats (which a couple of the new abilities are defensive, granted).

I kinda don't see how this makes the character move diverse in it's skill set, other than all skills are always Class Skills, and with the Rogue/Ranger they are split between class and cross-class.

hmm, edit -- just saw Evasion in the Spec Ability list. After 10th level the disparity in that regard vanishes, which does bring the two more in line with each other, but I still find the Scout's list to be lacking, skill-wise, which [b]limits[/b] diversity, imo.

You are comparing a multiclass to a single class (it's not even a prestige class), and no matter how much you break it down, it can never be a fair comparison.

Now if you compare it to a rogue or ranger alone, you will see that the scout class does allow more diversity in skill ranks.

[color=darkred]I designed this with the idea of the Ranger being a PrC, as in the Unearthed Arcana. That pretty much annihilates your arguement.[/color]

EDIT: [color=darkred]Oh, and three feats is a big deal. Trust me. So are the special abilities.[/color]

BONUS EDIT: [color=darkred]You also get fast movement as a Scout. I don't believe Rangers or Rogues get that.[/color]

RETURN OF THE EDIT: [color=darkred]Yeah, Dark, it's for the 2nd episode of CotV.[/color]

BRIDE OF THE EDIT, PART II: [color=darkred]Ok, I feel like fully defending the class, even without the assumption the Ranger is a PrC.

By your arguements, this is what's different:[/color]

[b][u]Ranger/Rogue:[/u][/b]
+2 BAB
+4 Fort, +2 Reflex
20 Skill Ranks
3 Favored Enemies
Woodland Companion
Wild Empathy
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Improved Uncanny Dodge

[b][u]Scout:[/u][/b]
20 HP
3 feats
2 special abilities
Fast Movement

[color=darkred]Ok, so... To start. 20 skill ranks (it's actually 23, if'n we're counting... No matter, really) is basically... 1 skill. So, it's not so terribly impressive anymore. Also, favored enemy is useful, sure... But not often so. That means that, you get a bonus against three out of how many different monster types... Exactly.

Wild Empathy is basically 'another skill', so the Scout is down two skills and a 'semi-useful' ability, Favored Enemy. To negate that, we have Fast Movement. Last time I checked, your move speed is used all the time. So, kinda-sorta... I'd say they are near equal there. Cuz, if you know a lot of about movement, 10' extra movement actually increases your Jump skill. Look it up; it's something hardly anyone actually notices. So, not only do you get 'some skill points' from the extra movement, you get a bonus to a skill you could already max out, making you 'extra goodly' in that skill.

I want to refute one of your points about the feats. While, yes, the Ranger/Rogue gets two bonus feats... They're pretty 'cut and dry' as to where the feats have to go. The Scout's bonus feats, though, have a FAR greater range of options. (I do realize I forgot to give a list of feats that could be chosen. My bad. They could choose anything from the Fighter bonus feat list.) Therefore, I'd say that, sure, they only get three more feats, the two that get 'canceled out' by the Ranger/Rogue are, in essence, 'more useful'.

Now, the save bonuses. That's a hard one to refute. I mean, yeah, +6 overall to your saves is pretty beefy. However, you could take the three save feats with some 'character level' feats, and you'd basically negate the three feats gained from the Scout class... [i]If[/i] the save bonuses were a big issue for you. So, if we wanted, we could negate the save issue with our feats.

The BAB works in a similar, but less direct manner. Say we wanted to negate that +2 granted by the Ranger/Rogue. There's feats out there that can be chosen to give you a bonus or two to hit in those situations, so effectively, three feats could negate the BAB... [i]If[/i] the BAB was a big issue for you. Although... If you think about it... How important is 2 BAB if it's not gonna get you that all important next extra attack? I would argue 'not very much', when you figure you can do the same (or better) with those three feats.

So... With those three feats, we could conceivably negate either the save bonus or the BAB... A hell of a lot more versatile if you ask me! Moreover, you could alternatively bridge the 'skill gap' with the 'extra feats' (again, using character level feats instead of the Scout's bonus feats) by taking skill feats. Again, this is slightly better because you become even better at skills you've already maxed. To me, no contest thus far.

I can see the two special abilities v the majority of the Ranger/Rogue's other abilities being about equal, especially when you notice this important point. How useful, really, is an animal companion that you only affect with 5 of your character levels? It's only going to have 2 more HD (Yay, a four HD companion! He's ANYTHING fodder at 20th adventuring level!), an extra 2 AC, and a little bit of bonus Str and Dex. I argue that the animal companion is nigh worthless at 20th level.

I think that about does it for my arguements. In closing, while the Ranger/Rogue could be 'better' at certain things, the I feel that the Scout could easily specialize in some things, and be far better than could this Ranger/Rogue.[/color]

[quote="Anouri"][quote="Dielzen"]Way too many class skills for a 6+MOD class. He has more class skills than a rogue and less points to spend.[/quote]

Yet wouldn't this allow for PC Scouts to customize themselves to a greater degree, rather than the more or less straightforward approach to purchasing skill ranks with the rogue in a few universally useful skills? Rogues generally tend to fall into specific categories, such as "swashbuckler" or "diplomat" or (Saber is going to kill me) "thief," without very much room to move around without becoming a rogue with skills that are spread too thin. The Scout class has one theme in mind, which is a lightfoot skilled in maneuvering and stealth; it takes the indirect approach of the rogue and the survivalist skills of the ranger and creates a reliable supporting combat class with valuable skills outside the battle, as well. Given that, the nature of how this Scout was envisioned by its creator also implies that the Scout has a chance to acquire an extremely wide variety of skills suited to her environment... rather than the chiefly socially-oriented class skills of the Rogue. :P[/quote]

OK, maybe I need some help, because my brain isn't clicking and I honestly have no clue what you wrote here. You said that the scout class has one theme in mind, and then you're talking about customizing it? I'm confused.

If you think classes like the rogue don't have enough skills to customize themselves, revise *them*... I really don't see how this addresses or defeats Dielzen's point. And imho no class should have more class skills available than the rogue, because it defeats the purpose of the rogue. Especially when the class is focused on one theme.

..i'm too tired to look at Saber's post, I'm going to go take a nap.

OK, never mind, I did decide to address one part of Saber's post that I also don't understand.

[quote="Saber"]Although... If you think about it... How important is 2 BAB if it's not gonna get you that all important next extra attack?[/quote]

Uh... 17 BAB does give an extra attack as opposed to 15 BAB... er... I'm going to sleep now.

[color=darkred]Hahahaha... Fuck.

That sucks... You're right, Striker. My brain just skipped there, for a moment. I thought you got th... Yeah, nevermind.

Also, the rogue has more... In CotV, at least.[/color]

[quote="Striker"]OK, maybe I need some help, because my brain isn't clicking and I honestly have no clue what you wrote here. You said that the scout class has one theme in mind, and then you're talking about customizing it? I'm confused. [/quote]

I'll tell you what I wrote once I find out.

*Sniffs more white powder and clicks 'Submit'*